Jessica Hische

0:06 I brought my beer on stage cuz I wasn't sure if there would be Waters I don't usually drink before being on stage because it kind of messes with my mojo so we'll see how this goes we're just chatting just chatting makes it a lot easier last time Jessica and I were together was in Birmingham yes in the UK and I encourage you to buy a shirt yeah Elizabeth's an amazing thrifter and so we went thrifting together and she encouraged me to buy this cro not this shirt but not this one a different shirt but I bought this cropped Ralph Lauren shirt and it inspired me so much that I went on like a crazy Etsy spree and bought like 30 men's polo shirts did you CR them yourself and started cropping them yeah and so now I have like up cycling Queen my entire closet is just cropped men's po polo shirts now I hope the weather doesn't change that's perk of living in San Francisco you can wear a cropped Polo year round weather's the same the whole year.

1:05 Basically.

1:07 So yeah I feel like we we're sort of primed for this to be pretty friendly you were going to ask the a you hadn't ask the audience question yeah I I was going to ask the audience because we have a few topics that we're talking about. And I feel like we're going to get carried away.

1:18 And then we're going to end up not talking about one of them. And so I would like a show of hands of which we should prioritize as our first topic so these are the the topics two topics to prioritize first one one is opening a a brick-and mortar store then number two is publishing children's books so raise your hands brick and mortar store well.

1:43 That's a lot of hands and then raise your hands children's books that looks like the exact same number of hands this is not remotely helpful I think some people rais their hands twice too cuz they were like I don't care you I I think we should talk about your brick and mortar store cuz we were talking about thrifting and it seems tangentially related that's fair yeah I'm also like I basically open the store cuz I have a shopping addiction. And I've been now able why do you think I started archiving oh it's beautiful because now like you know that thing where if you have access to something it becomes less desirable because you're like I could always have that thing my stores are sort of that.

2:24 So I buy things for the stores and everyone's like your house must be so full of all these amazing things. And I was like no because I can have them at any time. And I can buy them on behalf of other people which is great so for those who don't know you own two stores now can you tell us sure so I'll give you the backstory of the stores so I lived in New York for a while I'm no longer here I live in the Bay Area now but when I was here.

2:45 I had a studio at The Pencil Factory shout out Pencil Factory my old Studio mate's here and there was a moment when I was in The Pencil Factory when I was like hey guys you know what we should do we should all have one Collective store together where we sell our prints and stuff and then we just put an intern in there. And it'll be so great right and everyone's like sounds great and then nothing ever came of that. And so I've just had this dream of owning a little boutique store because I think like a lot of people who work alone but are severely extroverted I have this late in life plan of just being a barista so I can talk to people. And I just I like I am ins referable if you bring me into like a grocery store or whatever because I just I literally am like an energy vampire like talking to random strangers oh no my boyfriend is like you can't leave a store unless you find out one piece of personal information so some kind of quest no it's why like my husband is super introverted and but he understands that like people are my cocaine and so when we come to New York he's just like go do cocaine without me I will be at the apartment waiting for you to come home High out of your mind on all the people that you've met and so I wanted a way to like talk to human beings again and also too I feel like the the timing for the store is very much aligned with like my low-lying fears of artificial intelligence taking over our jobs and so like kudos to everybody that's really into it and my partner is literally a director of product at meta on the Gen team so we have lots of great conversations but I felt like combination being a little like about Ai and then also watching how difficult it became to connect with people online and how divorced from a personal experience that like online shopping has become like I think when I first started selling products online there just weren't that many small boutique stores doing it.

4:51 And then everybody just started selling on Etsy and things like that. But if you think about the thing that you bought on Etsy do you say I bought it from ex seller on Etsy no you just say like I got this on Etsy and so I feel like all of these like aggregators have sort of erased the maker from what we make and then also on a lot of those sites it's people just like generating stuff like on demand like in a way that isn't really showing the process and so I wanted people to understand and have a connection to my work and the things that I'm making and actually literally see it by being in the physical space cuz I I think like what really connects us to other people's work is the story behind it and actually like having like a memory like like really visibly I was going to say I think there's this real I think they call it the collapse of the Middle where.

5:42 Basically what happens now is you either have for example Boutique vinyl records or you go on Spotify and I think in a funny way we've actually kind of shifted more towards there's not a lot of borders anymore but there's a lot of you know nice lovely Indie bookstores or you go on Amazon. And I think there's sort of more desire for that far onto the Spectrum kind of store that you're talking about.

6:03 This is Al I'm already going to go on a mega tangent here.

6:06 But I have this theory that all stores survive for 10 to 12 years. And then.

6:10 That's it. And so because it is what year are you on I'm on year one okay got 11 good years got 11 good years left in me no part of that is I have a really unique situation so my studio is basically Barbie's creative Dreamhouse and so I bought my studio because I did all the finances of just like if I am not moving for 15 to 20 years cuz I have three small children what does it mean to own the space that I'm working in versus rent the space that I'm working in and when does the break even a very beautiful house this is something that is not on the agenda for tonight but but you should know so my studio like we got these two little side by side units in Downtown Oakland and busted through them which was what the original owners intended to do and the top floor is my office and then the bottom floor is split where one side is my print workshop and one side is a retail space you should tell them the name of your store well that store is called jh&f Jessica hish and friends I call it jh&f because I don't like spelling my name to strangers on the street so I had to rename my Google I also had to rename my studio Google address to be like Jessica hish Studio not store you know because people will just look and see that the store is closed but it's just my studio but anyway.

7:33 So I have a really unique situation with that though because I own it that I can kind of keep it open forever because I have no overhead of having that space besides all your time and labor besides time and labor and also the just buckets of money that I sunk into actually building the space out that I just la la la away in my mind but my other my second store that I have came out of it and that one has lot of overhead so that one hopefully I'll turn into some other business but if not it will have one you said in like a small kind of like Nook kind of you described it to me at some point that this area that so what happened is I trademarked a name for my original store and that name was drawing which is how Philadelphia people say drawing because I went to college in Philly and I had a really funny exchange with my College friends where they were saying drawing as like drawing as drawing and I was like it's drawing and they were like that's what I'm saying and they just like couldn't even hear it and what's amazing is I'm listening to Patty Smith's book right now and she says drawing and I'm like this is kismi It's amazing but then when I put all my work on the wall at the one below my studio I said this is weird people are going to come here and be like why is this thing named anything other than Jessica's name also it's definitely a destination store no one comes there unless they're coming to like visit me specifically but I had spent like 10 grand like you know doing naming and all that kind of stuff and trademarking so I was like well I guess I have to open a second store now.

9:09 And that's why that's happening and then also because drawing just worked so well for kids stuff and so I opened it that store I'm playing SEO here that store drawing sells children's books and yeah it's an all ages art suppli store but it's mostly kid geared but yeah.

9:26 So I basically treat it though it's one store split between two locations cuz it's all like one inventory one ethos yeah one ethos and I'm the only one doing it all so so are you making things specifically to go into the stores or how much are you sort of curating items versus producing things yeah I mean I'm I'm definitely producing things I make a lot of prints like so I'm I feel like I can own my title as print maker now that I'm 40 years old and I've never owned that title before.

9:56 But I do a ton of print of printing I do letter press printing I own a Vander cook. I have a to many drums Rizo setup I also have like a foil stamping machine and a glow Forge and a whole bunch of other stuff I basically just anytime my my business makes money I buy tools for myself to make things.

10:11 So I feel bad saying this but one of the reasons I teach at Ry is that I get access to all of the equipment there that is not a bad I mean I was just talking about wanting to teach so that I can have people to work in my stores that would be like the whole reason and' be like oh you're 22 and want to be an intern can you please work in my store but anywh who but yeah.

10:32 So I I sell my own prints there. And I use the store below my studio as sort of like a test kitchen for things that I want to make in small Supply because putting things online involves like actually making a fair amount of them. And investing in that.

10:49 And then photographing them and dealing with like finding the right packaging and all this kind of stuff and sometimes you just want to make a thing that might not be very popular and so the store becomes this place where I can make like five of something.

10:59 And then see if it also nice just have I think increasingly things that are only available in person I think it gives more motivation for people like to show up yeah it's kind of that thing too like you know when you're trying to sell something like you're having a garage sale and there's this piece of furniture that's very special to you and you're like this piece of furniture is $1,200 and then someone comes up. And it's just like I love this and you're like it's yours a dollar you know like you'll just give it to the person that like seems to care about it. And I like having those sorts of things too where. I just like give everything away to people that like are showing any sort of enthusiasm and so with the drawing store I feel like that one also obviously is related to you being interested in like children's books and children's materials and having kids like do you feel like that store came a little more felt a little more personal in some way compared to the other one I think drawing mostly came about it came about for a few reasons for one when you're a parent you end up wanting to make things for kids because you're just like all of this is garbage and then like all of a sudden everything that you want to do is like making cool kids whatevers but then your kids grow out of that thing and you're like oh thank God I didn't start a business about making baby things because I'm no longer interested in babies anymore but when you have little kids like everybody's going to birthday parties and whatever and like all the nice evolved smart parents have these like no presents please rules which is very nice cuz then you're not like accumulating a bunch of junk but no one's ever met mad about art supplies you know like oh another set of markers no big shakes so I wanted to make like the birthday party proof store where also like if you're going to buy a present for another child bringing your child into a store is dangerous territory CU that child's like well I also deserve a present for no reason at all. And so but people can come into my store and there's no toys everything. That's in there is a thing that helps you create and that's like it has to be that in order to be in the store so there's absolutely no toys no slime no nothing like that.

13:01 And so parents can feel okay sort of being like fine here's a pen to their kid what do you find that kids are most drawn to cuz I remember when I was a kid I love gel pens which are just very much dating myself as a '90s kid but I don't know like are gel pens still a thing or have we moved on to a different type of trend well there's these like Wiggly pens that adults and kids both love when you say Wiggly can you describe this yeah. So it's like you know this these like Japanese brands that make a ballpoint pen and on the top it's like a a jelly whatever that moves around and I have so many of them I can understand the compulsion the biggest hit though the biggest sleeper hit has been this pen that looks like an ear of corn those things just fly off the shelf everybody loves them like oh my God pen I never knew I needed this. And I'm like my mom works for my shop and she's like why the corn pen and I'm like it's delightful you know. That's not surprising to me I feel like that is everybody loves stuff that looks like other stuff I used to have a I had a cigarette pen yeah they still make those but I don't buy for my store yeah I can understand I did when I was like 12 I would take pictures for like Myspace being like yeah I'm smoking this cigarette one so one of the big theme for my D no no response from Jessica on that one she's like yeah my kids are not doing do that my mom was like a two packs a day smoker and so I like I'm definitely going to have some sort of secondhand smoke disease later in life. And so great but cut out the middleman but but when I one of the big themes for the downtown store which is the one below my studio is that everything. That's in the shop that's not artwork or books has to have both Beauty and utility that's like the big theme because I just like feel like so many beautiful Desy shops are just full of chachis and this is not me hating on chachis cuz I love a chachki but I also feel like chachki stores are places that you buy things specifically for yourself for the most part and like when you're thinking about gifting things to other people you want to gift something. That's going to be a part of their life in a regular way and not just be a thing that gets ignored and collects dust and so like all the things that I try to get are things that take a mundane activity and turn it into a joyful time give us an example my biggest example is this is a UK this was kind of like a inspo for the store moment I was in the UK in short ditch before it turned into like an insane party town because I went back recently thinking that it was I was like oh this was the cool neighborhood to be in and I was like no I'm not going back there.

15:38 But I bought this pencil sharpener from this German brand ducks and they make pencil sharpeners you can buy them all over the place but this one was an aluminum pencil sharpener that was mil out of like a solid piece of aluminum and it's faceted on the sides and it's just like a beautiful object and it works really well cuz like people that are watercolor or like colored pencil artists will talk about how the shape of the pencil sharpener really matters cuz you're constantly sharpening pencils and cylindrical pencil sharpeners are like just more ergonomic so it's like a very ergonomic pencil sharpener but also if you put it on the table it casts this like beautiful fractalized light onto the table and I at the time of buying this was only doing analog sketches like now I sketch a lot on the iPad but just the fact that like hundreds of times a day I would just be twisting this nice to hold object putting it down looking at that little spay of light it just turned a thing that was a nothing Behavior into something that was like amazing and so I like making those moments happen I mean I almost feel like that's kind of a nice analog for how I think about the best kind of graphic design is something that is kind of threading that needle of utility and Beauty yeah.

16:54 I think so and I think that's also it's very present in a lot of of my work that I do too where. And I make jokes all the time because people are like how come you didn't do a line of pillows or whatever like live laugh love la la la and I'm like oh that's so boring and stupid but I'm just like if like Craton Barrel or whatever was like Jessica we've got this idea will you make a live laugh love Pillow I'm just like I'm feeling a need I'm being asked to do a thing.

17:19 This is now a utility this is not like the Jessica his phrase that you what is your live laugh love what's my live laugh love yeah oh I don't have a live laugh I'm not like a you know it's so funny I'm like in you're not an inspirational phrase person which I should be based on Med could make a lot of money I know I could I just can't I can't I think this is also though what makes me like a like a letter of the people where I appreciate it.

17:45 But I'm like like not for me you know.

17:49 I think a lot of us like to make art that we wouldn't hang in our own homes you know like I feel that way about my art a lot of times I feel a little judgy when I see people who have too much of their own art hanging in their home people ask me if every piece in my studio is something that I made and I was like I have my Shrine to myself which is in the corner where all of my client projects go and that's that's fine but everything else is other people's stuff because why do I want to look at my own stuff that might be really why it's it's the feeling of like real artists probably hate 90% of what they did so when I see someone who has too much of their own stuff I'm like what's going on yeah this is also a top tip about tattoos never your own tattoos because you'll draw a tattoo on your arm and then you'll be like oh wow this tattoo that I drew I would redraw that one year later and that would look very different than but if your friend draws a tattoo or you get like art from someone else you're like a isn't this a great capture of that moment in time of my friends work they're so talented you know.

18:50 So I'm using this as a segue to talk about your book because your new book my first book of fancy letters I know it's all about sort of putting personalities on two letters and I think that's in a funny way like kind of related to the inspirational phrase but almost turning it on its head rather than having the phrase be sort of just aesthetic but the phrase itself holds the meeting here the letter kind of holds the meeting and this is your third fourth book it's my fourth kids book and sixth book overall yeah can you tell us a little bit the more about the book sure so made it to topic number two topic number two we moved on so my first book of fancy letters is sort of a Twist on an alphabet book and my publisher was very much like what who is this audience for you know like whatever like who's going to like this because they thought it was going to be like a lettering book for older kids but if you have kids does anybody in the audience have kids yeah we got small smattering of people shy this no no this is New York it's fine if you have a child below 40 you're basically a teen mom so it's like you guys have plenty of time freeze those eggs it's great you know whatever don't don't wor about it but so but kids kids that are like above once they start reading they drop picture books almost immediately then they're in like Dave Pilkey world and all they want to do is read dog man is that Captain Underpants no well the Captain Underpants is the I forget whatever Captain Underpants dog man and wimpy kid like it's just like they literally are just printing money with those books and my kids will one of them will have it.

20:27 And then they'll be like but I must own my own copy of that. And I'm like we can't have two copies of the same Captain Underpants book in this house like independent Publishers maybe not that one you know like whatever but so anyway the my first book of fancy letters the real audience for it is grown-ups that love letters of course so please buy it.

20:48 But then in terms of children it's really really fun for kids that can recognize letters and understand letter sounds but before they get into like reading and writing so this sort of like preschool to TK Kinder age because the way that it works is it's like it begins like did you know letters come in all s shapes and sizes some are athletic some can some are bubbly and some are creepy and so it takes this very visual adjective or like you know whatever. And illustrates the letter in that style and the light bulb that I see on little tiny kids faces when they see this is unreal for one thing think about all of the like astrological sign random like who's your Harry Potter character that you have done in your life the kids go through this book and go well G is my name because I am George but I'm not really that one because I'm more of a unicorn like whatever.

21:44 And so they're just like doing their Myers Briggs with my book. Basically which is very cute and then they immediately become over-the-shoulder art directors where they're like well water Wiggly be water or it should be what and they start listing out all the things that they want me then to draw and I'm like you know like feverishly drawing it at the preschool. So it's it's really fun because I feel like it really gets their gears turning and it's also just a medium they're not used to seeing because there's not a ton of lettering focused kids books because they can't be internationalized and that's something that you sort of think about when you're making kids books is like how is this going to translate into other languages and things like that so not all Publishers are brave enough to want to publish a lettering driven book.

22:28 But it's fun when they do I was going to say my stepmom teaches kindergarten in the Bronx and I used to go in for like career day and I would do a lecture about typography and one of them was putting the word Halloween in like curls and then putting it in like a creepy font and explaining to them like you are you're all already typographers you don't know it but you know that like this is this looks wrong and this looks right to you.

22:53 And it is similarly also showing them the FedEx arrow oh the arrow the FedEx arrow every age but no I was and I think it's really interesting to I mean what I love so much about the book is the way that it is taking topics that I think to your point seem more advanced to a lot of people.

23:11 But I think to any graphic designer those things are really fundamental the idea that like it I mean it's basically semiotics it's like a very base level of form following meaning I think too I think one thing that I love about that book specifically is talking about a thing that people didn't know existed you know in terms of creativity and art because people are like oh look you can be a painter you can be this but people don't understand that.

23:37 And I feel like we all probably had that moment when we found out about like a really Niche design or creative profession where you're like oh my God there's people that do that yeah like for me when I was working for Louise fely she would commission illustrators a lot for different projects and there was like a guy who was an illustrator that she would hire for projects sometimes and this guy only Drew chocolate that was like the only thing he drew and I was like like you know that really blew my mind that you could be that specialized in a thing that is what you do and I feel like with like I see this with adults like remember when like you explained for the first time that people make fonts and computers don't make fonts and like you know 60-year-old people are like wait what are you talking about like they don't understand it. And I feel like I have this conversation with little kids a bunch so I was going on book tour and this is one of the things that kicked off wanting to do that book and when I talk to kids and show them about how letters can be different ways and that I draw the alphabet all day for my job which is like I'm like you could have my job tomorrow and they thought that was great you know.

24:37 But I would have the kids that had lettering on their shirts stand up anytime you can get audience participation with like second grade and letters on their shirt massive massive hit with little kids of course and like then it's like quiet coyote for like a half hour but I would be like look around and do you see just just how different all of these different letters are you know like you might have an A on your shirt and you have an A on your shirt but they're totally different from each other.

25:05 But we can still tell that they're an A and they're like you know.

25:09 And then all of a sudden like parading themselves around the school. And so I don't know I just really like making people notice things you know like just pointing things out that they wouldn't have otherwise noticed and I think that's a theme in the store too is just like can you believe that someone put this much attention into this thing and that.

25:26 Now this thing that you would have totally ignored is is now like an essential part of your day there used to be a store in New York called CW pencil Enterprise that was just pencils and they were probably open in that 9 to 12 year window yes but I remember going in there and and there's something really magic about talking to someone also who's very excited about that thing where you could go in and say oh I I'm writing a grocery list and she'd say well this one doesn't smudge and you know those little details I think are what make it so special I think also that ties to what we do in terms of interfacing with clients you know like I do the majority I'm not a person who like makes all their money from these stores like maybe they make some money that's nice but not anything significant like kind of like badly badly paid intern money not like pay your mortgage money and but my client work is really what keeps everything afloat and one of my favorite Parts about client work is actually like giving clients the vocabulary to talk about the things that we're doing with people that don't understand what we're doing and like that.

26:30 So then the person who goes to that pencil store comes in they get told this one doesn't smudge when you're this or this is good for left-handed people or whatever.

26:37 And then for the rest of their lives they are advocating that specific thing to so many people because we all love sharing those little factoids it just makes you feel like a million bucks when you're like in a crowd full of people and like did you know you know no I remember I was giving a client presentation. And I had another designer in it with me.

26:54 And I was talking the client through all of the type faces I had Chosen and explaining why I had you know paired these two together and at the end of it the the designer was with me was like oh I never I never told my client the names of the type faces because I figured they didn't really care and I was like well then how do they know what they're paying us for but I think there's a lot of that which is like I'm sort of almost like karma for the next designer a little bit yeah no it's great and there was this whole thing that I think we're kind of over now where all graphic designers were just like a little bit of knowledge is dangerous I hate it when clients like think they know what they're doing or like whatever ever. And that's such because like you should never be denying people knowledge as a part of working with you because that's actually just a lack of trust in your own ability to like sell through your stuff and so like whenever anybody says that they're like mad that someone knows too much about things I'm just like seems like you're not the best Communicator then and can't like can't Wrangle the room you know like whatever.

27:48 But I was say do you find like within your client work like people have more knowledge of typography than previously you know in past years because I think typography is now such a more well-known sort of subject amongst the general populace than it used to be I think a lot of my clients expect me to have like an encyclopedic knowledge about fonts but because I draw all of my own letters I'm actually not hip to like all of the fonts because I'll see some they'll be like oh can we do this in like a high contrast slightly vintage style or whatever.

28:22 And I'm like yes and then. I just start drawing it I'm not like looking up what are all of the available type faces in that style and like buying them and having whatever all of the knowledge in the world about it so usually when people are like wanting to have like the let's talk fonts talk I'm just like not a graphic designer guys you know like whatever.

28:39 But then I you know. I have to recommend people that are the crazy font nerds to them for that if they want to have that experience because I'm like that's not me I think we're at time. Actually I know it feels like we just sat down fle through that yeah thank you so much for for your amazing thoughts on everything yeah and my new book comes out in October by the book I will be back again I'm speaking at a conference called creative works and we're going to try and have some sort of public thing with that as well so see you again in October maybe that'll be really fun thank you